It's been a month now...(Long Rant/Story)

"daender" (daender) 09/09/2013 at 15:56 • Filed to: Miata, Stealership, cotomer sevis

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Since I've last seen or driven the Miata. It's been sitting at a Mazda dealership for over 30 days and yet they can't seem to solve the car's crippling problem.

Backstory:

Dad purchased the car as a gift to me around the first week of January from a used car stealership in North Carolina called Cambria Cars (fuck you, dealer-guy). The NB is a 2002 LS with a 5-speed, tan interior and top, factory Bose sound system upgrade, 16" 5-spoke wheels, and 56-ish thousand miles for about 8.3k$. It had a few scratches in its silver paint, the wheels were showing signs of metal cancer, and the clutch had a small slip in it but otherwise it ran fine for the 30-minutes we drove it. It was involved in a front-end accident but wasn't written off and repaired (we couldn't tell to be honest, likely just a broken bumper). We figured we'd try buying a low-mile NB that was apparently in good condition instead of a cheap NA that needed work.

Around Spring-time, I drove myself and pops down to Savanna, GA to pick up a rare emerald green mica hardtop for 1k$. We drove about 3.5-4 hours each way but during the last 30 minutes on the way back, the Miata began acting up. It began to hesitate when I tried to accelerate it but it could hold a constant speed so we limped it back home. A few hours later we fired it up and it drove fine. My dad replaced the MAF with an OEM part to see if it solved the problem, along with a routine maintenance done at the local Mazda dealership that changed the fluids and installed a new fuel filter. Dad and I ground the wheels down to the surface and repainted them black, along with a Miata windshield sticker.

In late-spring/early Summer, I was at an autocross in Charleston with the NB. During the autocross I was driving it with about 1/4 gas left in the tank when the car seemingly "died" after going through a long and twist sweeping turn but after a second the engine caught itself and continued on. It happened three more times at the same turn so dad filled the tank and the Miata ran okay once more. It happened again early Summer during my "Autocrossing with Ender" story, the problem appeared under the same scenario and was temporarily fixed after refilling the tank.

After that pops and I agreed to take the Miata to a well-known and trusted Miata shop in Columbia, Panic Motorsports (sorry if I shouldn't mention them but they did their job fine). They charged about 750$ to replace the pump with a test and approved used pump from a front-wrecked NB, install a new aftermarket clutch, install a new shift boot, replace the worn-out slave cylinder with a new one, and cleaned out the fuel tank and replaced the fuel filter. Dad got a quote of $770 from a local shop just to change the pump. Apparently the car sat so long at previous dealerships that a layer of muck had formed on the bottom of the tank and rusted the fuel pump. Why didn't the Mazda dealership notice the clogged fuel filter or tell us about it when they did the maintenance? We thought our worries were over.

During mid-Summer, the worst happened. After a hot day of autocrossing in Darlington, the Miata began to hesitate on the way back home right after the event. However, pops and I were further away from home so we endured what felt like the longest drive ever. Once we got off the highway and onto two-lane country roads, the Miata began to lose power until we were forced to limp it home in 2nd gear and the engine barely holding 2k rpm. After a few hours to let it cool off, it ran like normal.

We took it straight back to the shop that worked on it and they did everything but throw the kitchen sink at it when they successfully replicated the issue. They checked every relay, re-cleaned the tank, changed the fuel filter, changed every sensor in the engine, checked every sensor not related to the engine, cleaned the injectors, replaced the spark plug wires, changed the ECU with the shop-owner's own NB, and yet they were stumped. They didn't charge a dime since they couldn't fix the problem but I appreciated their effort. After that dad finally took it into the dealership early July to see if Mazda could fix it.

By the way, the car NEVER threw a CEL whenever it acted up.

A little under two months ago:

The dealership tried to fix it but couldn't replicate the problem, they replaced the fuel filter for free, and so they told us to bring it back the very second it acts up. I drove it home, sat in the house for few minutes to find directions to a hobby store in Columbia, and fired it back up. I drove it for half an hour on the highway to Columbia before it acted up, and this time it was worse. I was happily rowing through the gears after a stoplight when I went for fifth, I engaged the gear and released the clutch correctly only to have the gas pedal go limp and engine drop revs. I pumped the gas pedal but the engine just continued to lose momentum. I had to quickly pull over and get the car turned around back to the dealership. I fought it all the way, the gas pedal worked okay if I held it steady or accelerated but if I let off to shift, the pedal would go limp again. I had to push the clutch in again, rev the engine (with the pedal only responding at certain angles), and release it in hopes the engine would catch itself and accelerate again.

At the dealership, I kept the car running and told the service manager to get behind the wheel and drive it while I sat shotgun. Even he could tell that it was acting up badly after driving it for less than half a mile, quickly bringing it back to the dealership. At least they were able to give me a free ride home in an employee's car.

I come back a week later, the last week of July, to pick it after Mazda reprogramed the ECU for free and told my dad and me to bring it back again if it acted up. I fired it up the next morning, trying once again to reach that hobby store when I noticed something was up. The engine almost stalled while starting up, then rev'd to 2k for about half a second before settling into a normal warm-start idle. I drove it less than a quarter mile before the unresponsive pedal came back and b-line'd it for the dealership.

Since then I haven't seen the Miata and according to my dad, who stops by every week to check for any progress, the Mazda dealership is still stumped at what could be causing the problem. They won't try replacing and testing new parts since it means we'd have to pay for whatever's installed, even if it doesn't fix the car. They said they'd call for a Master Technician to come in and look at the car but my father called someone higher-up in the corporate Mazda structure to find out they haven't been contacted by the dealership for help. My pops gave them the vin and got them on the dealership's case. The last I've heard from my pops was that he talked to the dealer service manager who seemed slightly disappointed that the higher-ups had gotten involved now.

It's been a sunny August and September month and I haven't been able to enjoy a single day of it with the Miata. I feel sorry for my dad who's put so much effort, time, and love to give his son the chance to have fun driving a stick-shift car, only for the car to become a money and time-sucking lemon. I am grateful for every minute that car was around, whether it be at an autocross getting podiums, in the garage getting cleaned, or cruising the roads, because I was lucky to be allowed to enjoy a car as a gift from him.

TL;DR: Don't buy a used car from a stealership without giving it a very thorough drive and look-over. Don't buy a car that's been sitting for a long time and expect it to run trouble-free. It just might be better to buy a cheaper car that you know needs work rather than a pricey-er car with low-miles and hidden issues. Finally, if your car was a gift from your parents, then don't forget to think about them every time you see and get in it.

Z_Stig > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:02

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Shitty story man. I hope they get it figured out for you.

HammerheadFistpunch > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:03

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I am having something of a similar problem with my car, have you had the timing checked? Also, have you been through and check for vacuum/intake leaks?

daender > HammerheadFistpunch 09/09/2013 at 16:07

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Timing belt was done by the dealership during the maintenance and tune-up (I forgot to include that). I haven't checked for leaks but I believe both Mazda and Panic have done that.

archovist > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:08

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Sounds like the guys who sold it to you probably knew exactly what they were doing - the best thing you can do is plaster a short version of your story all over the net with the stealership's name, and have Steve at Panic put in a v8 for you!

daender > archovist 09/09/2013 at 16:11

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Haha, it'd be fun with a V8 powering it but I'm really fond of having that rev-happy inline-four in there. If it was a RX-7 and I had the funds then yes I'd love to have Panic built a LSX-7.

HammerheadFistpunch > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:12

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not the timing belt, the distributor timing? You could have a bad camshaft position sensor or the journal for the sensor could be worn or gummed up. The other thing is the vacuum lines or PCV could be gummed up.

daender > HammerheadFistpunch 09/09/2013 at 16:13

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I believe the distributor was checked and I know for sure the camshaft position sensor was replaced and installed to the factory-correct gap by Panic.

HammerheadFistpunch > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:16

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if it makes you feel any better I still don't know what is doing it on mine either...and its not even a miata. It did seem to get much less frequent with repeated seafoamings. When I bought my Subaru forester I drove it for 10k miles (bought at 45k miles) before one of the injectors clogged and I had to replace it. That's what I'm doing next, taking out all 6 of my injectors and having them bench flowed. of course, it should throw a code if its an injector...but you never know.

qwertt > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:24

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Okay then; what about replacing the entire fuel line (with all new components) from the newly cleaned tank to the pump to the carburetors? Because it sure acts as if a clog (or clogs) is causing your problems. Also, there may still be "severe-nastiness" inside that fuel tank which is "breaking-off" after (each) cleaning and re-clogging your fuel system. Your thoughts?

daender > qwertt 09/09/2013 at 16:27

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I've been debating that with both Panic, pops, and my NB-owning friend. Panic found the fuel pressure to be a steady and correct 60 ft*lb so there probably isn't anything in the lines. The fuel tank should be completely cleaned out by now. I think it might be vapor lock from the fuel line coming too close to a heat source like the exhaust, cat, or engine itself.

Z_Stig > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:27

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Did you try the coil packs?

daender > Z_Stig 09/09/2013 at 16:28

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Yes, that was tested and replaced by Panic but it seemed to not be the problem. Also, I've ridden a NB with a failing coil pack (funny enough, from the same stealership) and it doesn't feel like it (that NB felt like it was running on 2 cylinders).

Tekamul > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:31

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This may be too simple a suggestion, or more likely addressed with all the tank cleaning, but does it use a vented cap? Have you replaced that cap? You could be building vacuum in the tank, and releasing that vacuum every time you add gas, or let it sit a bit.

*EDIT* you could quickly test by driving around with the cap cracked open a bit. I've seen this before with motorcycles, and the symptoms sound similar

daender > Tekamul 09/09/2013 at 16:33

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That theory was considered at Panic and they replaced the fuel cap with a new-ish factory part but it still acted up. Good theory though, I might test it whenever it returns if it doesn't get fixed.

Z_Stig > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:34

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It sounds like Panic has thrown everything at it. I hate problems like this. No matter what parts you buy and what you try, the problem is still there.

qwertt > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:39

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Vapor lock is a possibility; however, I think the engine would shut down completely and would not start (again) until the air-vapor-vacuum spot was vanquished. And I'm also gonna stick with my original story: "Crap-toids" breaking off inside your fuel tank and then causing severe hesitation and stuttering, followed by hard-pulling to the right-hand side of the pavement!

daender > qwertt 09/09/2013 at 16:50

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Hmm, that could be it but it doesn't pull to the right at all, it just starts falling flat on its face.

qwertt > daender 09/09/2013 at 16:59

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I know you understood what I said, but what I meant was: some newly-formed fuel-nasties cause your engine to hesitate and stutter, whereupon you physically steer your vehicle to the right-hand portion of the roadway in expectations of stopping due to severe engine (stalling) problems.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Z_Stig 09/09/2013 at 17:05

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I had a similar problem with my E30 a few years ago. Engine would randomly run really rich and flood the engine...replaced everything possible, many $$$ (including swapping in multiple ECUs) and weeks...kept having to tow it back to the mechanic....finally replaced the ECU cables which fixed the problem. Turns out old cables corrode/get crappy/who knows. Thankfully the car has been mostly problem-free since then.

GhostZ > daender 09/09/2013 at 17:53

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Check lemon laws in your state. If they cover used cars, you could be in luck.

GhostZ > daender 09/09/2013 at 17:54

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Honda K20 swap, then?

daender > GhostZ 09/09/2013 at 17:59

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I'm not sure whether to check SC (where it is after we bought it) or NC (where it was bought) lemon laws.

GhostZ > daender 09/09/2013 at 18:11

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It's probably for the state it was sold in, the location of the business for whomever sold it to you.

daender > GhostZ 09/09/2013 at 18:15

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Haha, I wish if I had the money.

PlayerWAN > daender 09/09/2013 at 20:32

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Have they checked the Crank and Cam position sensors? Also, make sure they have a good look at the EGR valve and preferably the whole system. It sucks when a fellow Miata is sick.

daender > PlayerWAN 09/09/2013 at 20:56

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Crank and cam (along with any other sensor that's connected to the engine) was checked by Panic. I'm not sure about the EGR valve.

Toby F., Manager > daender 09/09/2013 at 20:58

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Sort of similar to what had happened to my car (not much) but, have you tried a whole new computer? My car experienced no starts and hesitation when after the car was warmed up to temperature. Took it to the dealer, & had it diagnosed as a faulty computer after changing similar parts you listed/are listed in other comments. Since the ecu change and reprogram, there have been no problems since. *knock on wood. Hope your problems are solved!

daender > Toby F., Manager 09/09/2013 at 21:38

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The dealership tried that but I think it made it run worse.

Sethersm > daender 09/20/2013 at 08:11

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Still having problems with this car?

I was lying awake at about midnight last night when this story popped into my head for some reason. At the time I was wondering if it might be a plugged up catalytic converter. Upon re-reading, that seems unlikely since the problem apparently comes and goes. At some point in the story, you mention that the car had sat unused for some time, perhaps rodents built a nest in the exhaust creating a blockage? That might jive more with the hiccups when cornering if there's some nesting material in the muffler that is able to shift around and only occasionally block up the pipe. If they're still stumped, it's worth a check, and shouldn't require parts (I believe they'll generally drill a small hole in the pipe and check pressures with a manometer).

After re-reading, I was wondering if the car is "drive by wire". If it is, perhaps there's a malfunction in the variable resistor connected to the gas pedal? Throttle position sensor?